In this episode of Connected Thinking, Lisa Bent, our Group HR Director, sits down with Richie Brave, a journalist, presenter, and host of BBC Radio 1Xtra Talks. Richie has built a powerful voice that champions Black British Caribbean identity and amplifies underrepresented voices both on and off air.
Together they chat about:
- How brands can move beyond performative inclusion
- How influence bridges the gap between communities
- Reframing imposter syndrome as a response to societal structures
... and much more!
"As people with influence, we have a duty to bridge the gap between culture and audiences to help people make informed decisions."
What do you think of the term influencer? And what type of influencers do you wish there were more of?
I feel influencers get a bad rap. I think I have influence, but I would not say I am officially an influencer.
I think we have moved into this really anti-influencer space and ideology. People say influencers are very vapid. Not all of them are. Some of them do some really great work and they use their influence and their platforms to promote some really amazing things.
What I do think is important is that we need to identify the difference between influencers, broadcasters, journalists, etc. Some people are all three or all five and some people are also just one of them. That is perfectly okay. I think sometimes when we look at brands, influencer marketing organisations, or people who book influencers, the issue I have is that influencers will be given jobs that journalists should be getting, and journalists may be given jobs that influencers are getting. The waters get muddied a little bit, but influencers have their place, and I do not feel that I am one. But maybe I am, and I am alright with that.
I am a broadcaster by job title. I said this recently, you are now expected to be all of it. If you are a broadcaster, you are also expected to be a bit of an influencer, or a journalist, because social media exists and that is now the currency. You are expected to be able to influence and do that online.
You've built your voice as a broadcaster and presenter to spark important conversations around representation. How do you see social media shaping those conversations compared to traditional broadcast media?
I am unapologetic in the things that I do, and I would say I am quite earnest and honest. I say the things that I feel. It is interesting because you talk about influencer and people are like "You need to get on TikTok and start posting every day". I post when I have something to say. I think a lot of people post things as a result of their job, they have to post every day to keep engagement up. I should be more interested in that, but my engagement is really good because I am known for saying things when I have got something to say and I care.
I have done some ads for things, but only things that I care about. I think what is different in that space is that when I am working on the BBC, there is an expectation that I orchestrate conversations in a particular way. Of course I have input, but I do not have full creative control. When it comes to my social media space, I use that to promote the things that I want to promote and have the conversations that I want to have that may not always fall within the sphere of a professional organisation or a corporate organisation or a conglomerate. My space is for me, and I have built a community that gets me.
As a broadcaster, you're often a bridge between culture and audiences. How do you see influencers playing that role today, especially in giving a platform to underrepresented voices?
Clearly you need to stay tapped in. Influencer culture can make you removed from society. As a result of being an influencer, you get paid to promote things, you do ads, you get free stuff, and maybe you go to particular events. Sometimes it can remove you from the realities of what it is like navigating through society. I think it is really important to stay rooted in the communities that you are influencing.
I have done some ads. I did something for a sweets company, that was my first influencing job. But I did it in a way that was authentic to me. I genuinely liked the sweets, which is why I did it. I think influencers need to remain rooted in authenticity.
I think the word influencer is associated with people who promote products. Actually, you are talking about people who promote culture and want societal change. In that case, I probably am an influencer. Bridging the gap between the two is important, and why influencers are important.
I have got something coming up soon around HIV awareness because I think it is important that I use my voice and use the platform that I have to inform people to make informed decisions. I am not HIV positive, but I think it is important for me to use my voice. For me, bridging the gap is being brave enough to use your platform to have conversations that people usually would not. I think as influencers, as people with influence, we have a duty to bridge the gap between the two.
The reason I say duty is that the people that are paying your bills are buying into you as a person. You cannot just take from this community and not give back to them. I do not just think about representing communities that are marginalised or underrepresented. I also think about connecting with communities that are represented, so they understand realities they may not have proximity to.
So I see myself as not just a bridge, but a connector between multiple different worlds. My following is so varied. The conversations that I have connect different communities together.
I think influencing is about connection. You never know who you are connecting to. That is the beauty of it. Brands need to think about who that person's audience is, not who you think their audience is.
Some of the most powerful cultural moments today come from social media. What does that shift mean for how we tell inclusive stories? Follow up: are there any recent social campaigns that stood out to you?
I think we need to be very clear on what we mean by powerful, and powerful does not always mean good. We can look at the Black Lives Matter movement. During 2020 and 2021, especially in London during the pandemic, that is a powerful cultural movement, and a lot of people connected through social media. You saw an awakening for many people. That is powerful. You are connecting people to their roots and identity.
Powerful is also a lot of the racism that you see online. That is powerful. It holds great power, but it is not a good thing. So when we are talking about powerful cultural moments, it is important to consider what we mean by power, and with power comes great responsibility.
There was also the Give Blood campaign recently, and it was Simply Sayo who is an amazing woman. She lost two siblings to sickle cell, and she has promoted Black people specifically giving blood. She has grown Black donors exponentially in this country. That was a massive campaign. She is funny, she is earnest, she brings humour to it, but she is also able to be very serious.
That was such an amazing campaign because they used someone that the community trusts. That is really important when it comes to power and change. When you are using influencers, having followers does not mean they are a trusted voice. They may be a voice people consider, but it does not mean they are trusted. That was a great campaign because they used someone who is trusted in the community.
When you scroll through your feed, where do you think the industry is getting inclusion right, and where does it still feel performative?
It's hard because there is so much AI rubbish out there now, and I am watching everything thinking, is this a real person or is it not? That is scrambling me at the moment.
I think where the industry is getting it right in terms of inclusion is that some spaces are unapologetically using faces of colour. The issue that I have had previously is they would bow to pressure, where people say, "Why are there so many Black people in this campaign?", and then you would see companies rescind some of their campaigns, or the next one you see is all white.
Where it goes wrong is a lack of considered representation. You only want to work with Black people during Black History Month, or you only want to work with queer people during Pride, or you only want to work with Muslim people during Eid. I think we need to be integrating communities generally. If you are doing a celebration of summer, show how Muslim people enjoy summer in the park. Do not just use them for something that is Eid related or tied to their Muslim identity.
We build unrealistic perceptions of people based on the way that media positions them. So for me, it is about making considered representation rather than tokenistic representation. Those are very different.
You've worked in many different spaces. Have you ever had imposter syndrome?
The thing with imposter syndrome is we are pathologising an experience that is related to the environment that we are placed in. We are then tasked with managing the feelings that are associated with that. Imposter syndrome is a structural issue, it is not a personal issue. Environments and structures make us feel like we do not belong, and in turn we feel like imposters.
I realised that imposter syndrome is not my problem, the environment needs to change, not me. I can manage the feelings associated with it, but there is nothing wrong with me. The fact that I am even in this room speaks to the fact that I should be in there, but structural and societal elements make me feel like I should not. I think imposter syndrome, yes I have experienced it, but it is not a problem that I need to manage within myself, it is a structure that needs to change.
When you look at white supremacy, misogyny, transphobia, racism, all of those things make us feel lesser than. They send messages that we are not enough and we should not be in a space because historically lots of us have not been allowed into those spaces. So for me, I have noticed that imposter syndrome is insecurities that have been created in me by societal structures. They are not something that exists within me because of my lack of skill. I have got all the skills. I am in the rooms. I just need to shed the insecurity.
What are those insecurities rooted in? I use the example of women who walk into boardrooms and put an idea forward and no one listens to them, and then a man says exactly the same thing and everyone responds to him. If that keeps happening again and again, what is that going to do to your confidence and sense of self? That is an insecurity created by an experience.
A lot of the insecurities that we have are positioned as weaknesses inside ourselves. You need to be more secure, you are an insecure person. Actually, we need to look at what those insecurities are rooted in and what it took to get to that place. I have insecurities, both professionally and personally, but what I do is attempt to understand where they come from. I am not saying I do not have the responsibility to challenge them, but it is important that we acknowledge and dismantle the things that created them, not just in ourselves but in other people.
We have a duty to dismantle environments that make people feel lesser than.
What can we do as an individual to build up our self-belief in spite of the environment?
Going to places that pour into you, and writing down the things that you are good at, celebrating your wins, and taking the compliments when they are given to you. I find that quite hard. When someone says "That is really good" I would think it was bad. I can be self-deprecating. We all can be.
Accept those wins. Accept that love. Accept those compliments. When you do a great piece of work, pat yourself on the back, acknowledge it, and receive it when someone else does the same. There are so many small things that pour into us that we bat away as a result of what is going on inside of us.
I also think these are not just individual things that we need to manage ourselves. We need to be the change that we want to see. People say they do not want to compliment someone or seem like they are trying too hard. Just tell the person they were good. Tell the person that they did a really good job. What you did was amazing. I really liked that you spoke up in that meeting.
All of those things build confidence in somebody. Recognise the things that you are good at and know that you are an individual. The things that somebody else is good at and the things that they feel able to do, you are not always going to be able to do, and that is part of your journey. It is completely fine.
Favourite book or podcast you'd recommend?
A book would be The Will to Change by bell hooks. It is an exploration of men, sexuality, and masculinity.
Best piece of advice you've received?
It's being yourself. I spent a very long time trying to be somebody else.
My mum and dad have been really integral in giving me the permission to be myself. I have been provided all the opportunities that I have been given because I have been myself. When I was not being myself, I was not moving forwards.
That constant reminder to be yourself, be your authentic self, even if people do not like it, has been the best advice because my life has been thriving ever since.
