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We're chatting about:
→ How Rimmel brings a startup mindset to a heritage brand
→ What brands get wrong about cultural relevance
→ Why Rimmel evolved its iconic tagline from "Live the London Look" to "Live Your London Look"
→ How advocacy teams are becoming the most strategically important function
1. Rimmel is a 192-year-old brand, but the challenge is making heritage feel culturally relevant. What's been your approach to bringing a startup mentality into a brand with that much history?
With a heritage brand, it can be your biggest strength or it can be your biggest constraint. It just depends on how you're willing to interpret that heritage for the culture of today and how you keep reinterpreting it. A brand like Rimmel has had time to build all of that emotional equity. It's recognisable, you've got that recognition, whereas a lot of indie startup brands can take years to build that. If you're a creator, founder, brand, the goalpost is completely different. So we've been focusing on modernising that for Rimmel.
Our tagline 'Live the London Look' and the shift to 'Live your London Look' are a good example of how we've started to modernise that. And it might seem like a really simple shift, but the impact is quite big because you're going from having a London beauty look to how you can globalise that and what that means in different markets in terms of individuality, self-expression and how you can live the London look wherever you are, but live your London look. And that's the big shift. This has been quite key for us as well from a heritage point as it's something that's quite long-standing for us as a brand.
From a startup mentality point of view, for me and my background, it's really bringing that agility into teams and decision-making, but also knowing when you need to slow down and just really look at everything with a bird's-eye view and thinking about how you can incorporate that into your decision-making and making sure you are at the forefront of culture. And behind all of that is a team that you have to maintain the culture to make sure that they feel empowered to experiment, try new things, test and trial. Which isn't always easy in a heritage brand, but it's how you can reinterpret that for today's culture and have that proximity to culture as well.
2. "Cultural relevance" is something every brand talks about. What does it mean to you now?
I think cultural relevance has become the most overused marketing phrase and not everyone knows how to interpret that. Sometimes it gets confused with reacting to a trend or making something go viral, which isn't cultural relevance, in my opinion. It's really about how brands can be invited into culture and not interrupt culture in the wrong way. So it's more about thinking: what do people care about emotionally? What do they care about creatively? How can you be in those conversations and fit into that naturally as a brand as well?
For me, culture's something that's really lived, not manufactured, and really thinking about relevance. So, how does that community speak to each other? What's their language? Do you understand the fandoms? There might be certain terminology that's used within said community that as a brand you really need to understand. And it could mean different things for different communities. So it's just really thinking about that and how brands can be relevant in a natural way.
3. Beauty is one of the fastest-moving categories culturally. How do you approach keeping a global brand like Rimmel relevant without constantly chasing trends?
It comes back to that cultural bird's-eye view. But it's more about being culturally aware versus being trend-reactive all the time. Because if you're not culturally aware, you can't really be trend reactive in the right way. And when is the right time to be reactive versus being culturally aware, which should be the first point. I think a lot of brands can try and chase everything but then lose their identity along the way. So, it's really about bringing it back to what are your values, you know, what are those key community pillars or cultural nuances you would like to play in?
And I think when you're looking at it from a global point of view, it's having that red thread, that commonality that can translate, but then also looking at it at a more granular level on a local view, because you need that depth and those nuances in those markets, in those different regions that can inform that.
Because what culture looks like globally is one thing, but then in those different markets it might be interpreted a little bit differently. We did a really great campaign of 'Beauty Live From', which stemmed from 'Live Your London Look.'
We activated in key markets, London, of course, our hometown, and Melbourne, Miami, to name a few. And we really thought about what that meant in those markets. So, it was really about then taking that 'Live Your London Look', but then integrating that into a campaign that was tangible across the globe. And that worked really well for us. When we activate in each of those different cities, it feels different and the vibe is different and that's exactly what we need to achieve, just translating that beauty.
4. You've worked in PR and influencer marketing long before the creator economy became what it is today. What's the biggest shift you've seen in how brands and creators work together?
Influence is no longer just about reach, it's about credibility, the consistency of that message and how creators and brands are connecting and making that cultural impact. It's the mindset shift of not thinking of it as "this is a collaboration". We really need to be thinking with a more bird's-eye view when it comes to culture and then how that has shifted the creator economy overall. I feel like it's finding that balance, and if something doesn't feel right, whether that's the creator or the agent having that conversation, you need to have that transparent relationship and dialogue to find that balance.
5. We're seeing the lines between PR, influencer marketing and community becoming increasingly blurred. How do you think advocacy teams need to evolve within brands?
I think advocacy teams are strategically becoming the most important for brands for many different reasons. And one of them is that people don't experience brands in specific channels the way they used to anymore. They're experiencing brands in conversations, whether that's in real life or online, wherever those conversations might be in those different digital spaces. It's about how brands can really participate in those conversations in the right way to find a way into those communities. And advocacy teams need to really be thinking like cultural intelligence teams. What I mean by strategic cultural intelligence teams is teams that are on the forefront of culture. What's emerging, what community makes sense for us to be invited into, to have a voice in and really thinking about how they can take part in that in a natural way and not interrupting it.
And then it's really gone from just campaigns to more long-term relationships with those communities. How can you give back to that community and support that community? Those advocacy teams should really be thinking about that long term.
So it goes beyond your relationship with a creator and it's your relationship with that creator, but also that creator's community. And I think the brands that will win at it are the brands that really add value to that culture and that community.
And if you're not adding value, to your point earlier, they can see beyond that. You can see when something's forced, when something's transactional. If you're not giving that back, then you're not really tapping into culture or being culturally relevant in the right way.
And that's how you scale. Because when you're purely thinking about what can you extract from those communities, it's never gonna land in the same way.
6. With audiences becoming more critical of brand messaging, do you think creators now hold more cultural influence than brands themselves?
I think it really depends on the scenario and the context of how you're approaching it, whether you're a creator or on the brand side. Sometimes yes, and in some cases no. But often the creators have built that trust of just really understanding their audience.
And a brand can never be that deep into that data or that community. They're not the ones replying to that creator's DM every single day. That individual is and that's where it's different. But then those two working together is where the magic happens. So, I think brands really need to be close to that and really understand those communities even deeper.
But also when you think about creators as media channels or you think about them as having cultural voices, that's what brands can really leverage because you're getting firsthand insight into that community and that culture and that has so much value within itself.
So it's a bit of a swinging approach because it can shift. The culture can be in the creator's hands at one point and then it can be in the brand's hands. But then when it comes together and it's participating at that right moment, is when it's key. But the main thing is keeping that longevity of it and the long-term relationship versus just a one-off approach to it because that isn't participating in the right way.
We recently did a partnership with Red Bull in the beginning of this year, and it was a great example. We worked with Lily Smith, who's a gymnast and it was all for our Thrill Seeker Megalift Mascara where she did a beam routine. And again, it was us really co-creating that and thinking of it in a different way and what beauty means to that community. And it performed really well and it was a nice start to the future of what's to come, of different ways within beauty and different communities.
Favourite book or podcast you'd recommend?
Book: Don't Sweat the Small Stuff by Richard Carlson. It's really good, makes you pause and think, are those things really important? And just actually spend time on what matters, both personally and as a marketeer. I think it's really important for teams.
Podcast: Loving Rise with Roxy by Roxy Nafuse. That's a nice one and I'm a bit of a wellness person, so that one's really good for me.
7. Best piece of advice you've received?
"Slowing down to speed up." Because often when we talk about having a startup mentality or having agility, you automatically think, "okay, I need to speed up", but sometimes you need to slow down, have a bird's-eye view, pause, slow down and speed up.
8. What are your top products that you could not live without?
Well, I'd be biassed if I didn't say my Rimmel Butter Me Up, but I love this one. We've just launched it, it's amazing and you should try it. And also I think an SPF, you can't go wrong with. If we're talking skincare, vitamin A and a good setting spray.
